I was really ready for this position!

What preceded it. Sand sculptures. Your first job after you graduated.
‘Funny you should begin with the sand. After I graduated, it was hard to find a job. Fellow students worked at Blokker, so I was really happy when I was given a chance at the sand sculptures. I started working for the Brighton festival and soon worked as project manager at own locations, such as Sneek, Oss and Weston-super-Mare. I was on the road a lot, organising events of 40,000 to 100,000 visitors per season, and thought up playful actions. In Sneek, we realised the first sand hotel in the world. Wonderful time, I learned a lot from it.’

What did you take from those early days?
‘Above all, I discovered I’m a generalist. I was involved with operations, organisation, marketing, HR. I was thrown into the deep end and I personally think I learned to swim very well. That first job sparked the entrepreneurship in me, which I hadn’t been into before. In addition to my job, I attended a pre-master’s programme at BUas, and the academic master’s programme at a later stage. That was an intensive period, as a result of which I did learn to plan well.’

Why did you opt for the Master of Science Leisure and Tourism Studies?
‘I missed some deeper layers in the professional bachelor’s programme. You learn, for example how to make a marketing plan, but I wanted to dive into the theory, discover the why. How has the leisure field developed and why exactly? What are trends for the future? I also found the socio-psychological aspects very interesting. What motivates people to make a certain choice?’

And what moved you to leave the world of sand sculptures after five years?
‘I began to miss the challenge; I was also done living out of my suitcase. I started looking for something in Brabant, because I wanted to expand my network there. From my interest in history and culture I applied at Crossroads Brabant '40-'45, which had just been founded with the aim to connect activities in Brabant around WWII heritage. Starting a new project for this foundation rekindled the entrepreneurial flame in me. I had already discovered that a sand sculpture is a great form to tell a story. So in that respect, what I'm doing now – engaging in dialogue with stories and seeking new forms to tell these stories – is close to what I was doing with the sculptures.’

How did you end up with Brabant Herinnert?
‘For the celebration of 75 years of freedom in 2019-2020, BUas carried out research on how storytelling can be used around WWII heritage. This research was the basis for the concept Crossroads: 75 personal life-changing war stories. In each story there is a turning point or crossroads, hence the name Crossroads. In the project, we looked for stories from World War II with turning points that had life-changing consequences for the protagonists or people in their environment. From the national playing field the request was made to join the international Europe Remembers campaign. Therefore, in 2019, we decided to roll out the programme under the name Brabant Remembers. Since 2021, we’ve stuck to Brabant Herinnert as it appeals more to local people.’ 

What does commemorating mean to you personally?
‘My father was always very involved with the subject. A regular feature was the 2-minute silence on 4 May, the celebration of 5 May and telling and reading about WWII. Stories about my grandparents were also told. My one grandfather was in the resistance movement and my other grandfather had to go to Germany for the Arbeidseinsatz. Those stories impressed me as a child. It may feel like something from another time, but the themes are still relevant today. I am allergic to statements, such as “never again!” It still happens. And time and time again. Hence, my intrinsic motivation to actively contribute to conducting dialogue about peace and freedom and connecting people. In the hope that we may also celebrate 100 years of freedom in the Netherlands. That motivation has certainly been nurtured and has grown through my work.’ 

How have you experienced retrieving those personal stories around WWII?
‘It was an intensive, but very instructive and rewarding task. People came with their parents’ diaries, and also with stories from their own experience. During one of the sessions, someone came to me and said, “I want to share my story, but not in front of everyone,” because it was so sensitive. The stories are not only about resistance or struggle, but also about other perspectives. It is precisely by addressing that diversity that you get a complete story.’ 

How was it like to give these stories a place in your programme?
‘Special. A person's personal story is something vulnerable, people cherish it and want to protect it, but at the same time you notice that they also want to share it with younger generations and a wider audience. You need to deal with that carefully. With the permission of those involved, the stories were made available to Brabant municipalities, among others, to create local programmes. Think of exhibitions and school visits, where the storytellers sometimes came into the classroom themselves. We’ve also developed projects ourselves, such as the Dilemma Maze in Bergen op Zoom and the Crossing Time performance at NM Kamp Vught. And Omroep Brabant has made short mini-documentaries of a number of stories which can still be watched on YouTube.’

You recently started as programme director of Brabant Herinnert. What do you see as your mission?
‘The group of people who experienced World War II is getting smaller and smaller. With that, the stories are fading into the background. It was the last time we were unfree in the Netherlands. I think it’s important to keep engaging in dialogues about this. Despite the digital world, people seem less and less connected with each other. Polarisation occurs in society and conflicts and wars arise  worldwide. Dutch people with cultural roots outside the Netherlands also have stories to tell about this topic. Their families may not even be living in freedom at the moment. These are turbulent times and all these elements contribute to misunderstanding. My mission – together with my team – is to reconnect people. To start the conversation about peace and freedom with each other using WWII as a starting point.’

Young people are more distant; how do you bridge the gap to this generation?
‘By making it broader. The Second World War is disappearing from our view more and more and so current generations have a greater task to keep the flame of freedom burning. It's much more about universal values. We started Studio Herinnert, a project for and by young people. They take to the streets, to liberation festivals and events, such as PinkPop to ask other young people: what does commemorating being free/unfree mean to you? The results are brought together in an art installation that can be visited again to share the stories with a wider audience.’

What are you involved in at the moment?
‘We’re preparing the celebration of 80 years of freedom in 2024-2025. With the Brug naar Vrijheid (Bridge to Freedom) programme we put local activities on the map, but also produce national projects and with Travel & Trade activities we also want to attract more international visitors to Brabant. The plans are surely ambitious, but we know what we’re doing it for.’

How do look back on your journey to date?
‘I’m very happy with where I’m now. I’ve learned so much about WWII heritage. I was truly ready for this position. After havo, I wanted to organise events to entertain people. In hbo that focus was adjusted to creating experiences, and now I find giving meaning to activities through which I personally contribute to a better society an important motivation.’

Are you also involved in an initiative in the context of commemorating WWII and are you seeking a sparring partner or collaboration? 

Please feel free to contact Caroline at caroline@brabantherinnert.nl.

Interview by Maaike Dukker 't Hart