'Werk en Bewonder'

Werk en Bewonder. Work and Admire. That’s what we are going to talk about shortly. But first, I admire your work!
‘Thank you, quite a lot, right? But I’ve been at it for a while. In the third year of my studies I actually had a job. I thought, you can always graduate. At NHTV (now BUas, ed.) they saw the storm coming and I eventually graduated in the fourth year via an apprenticeship as it was called back then.’

You worked for Signo&S, a consultancy firm in the cultural sector. What did you do?
‘I worked on behalf of pop venues and municipalities. Even then, municipalities saw the importance of youth culture, and what a pop venue could mean at that age stage, but they thought that youth centres needed to develop into adult cultural organisations. I actually got into it through pop venue Para in Breda, a small organisation with many freelancers that had to develop into a cultural company. I learned a lot in those early days. Especially about how to ask questions that actually help. But also about how to make a good budget and a good plan?’

You worked as artistic director at De Vorstin in Hilversum for over five years. How was that?
‘It was a youth centre in a very old building that needed to become an independent organisation. And so pop venue De Vorstin emerged. In the bridging situation, while waiting for a new location, we organised festivals in the city to stay visible. In Hilversum the media are your neighbours, but nothing was really being done with them. So I sought that connection. That’s also what an artistic director does, looking at what collaborations are needed to achieve your goals.’

And then you left for Muziekgebouw Eindhoven. That was a size bigger.
‘It wasn’t culture shock or anything; it had the same vibe and dynamics, but yes, it was many sizes bigger. As Business Director I was responsible for the whole production side of it, the catering, the building, 155 people employed. All in all, a very different work culture than what I was used to. The programming was also much broader. For me that meant a nice step forward. I could develop further across the board of what I already knew.’

What did you mostly learn at the time?
‘It may sound silly, but in Eindhoven I learned to really trust. If the floor manager said, I've taken care of that, I had to assume it was true. That floor manager is there for a reason. I’ve learned to create frameworks in which people can come into their own. That role suits me, I soon found out. That growth process was very valuable to me, which is why I stayed there for quite a long time. But also because I’m someone who loves commitment. You need several years to be able to add the value that you came for.’

And what value did you want to add to the Muziekgebouw Eindhoven?
‘The Muziekgebouw was mostly regional in terms of music and programming. It needed to be more national and international. That ambition had already been expressed before I arrived; my role was to bring the organisation along with the new ambitions. We started making our own productions that attract new audiences; we entered into other forms of collaboration. Leading the effort, that was my role.’

Can you give an example of that other approach?
‘The Muziekgebouw is located at the heart of the city centre, in a shopping mall. Many people don't even know it's there. Even when I went for a job interview, I had to ask three times where I was supposed to be. Working on visibility, I immediately thought. Together with the artistic manager and producers, I sought more connection with the city. We did so by organising events outside the building. People often stand in front of such a building and have no idea what to expect; you have to show what you do. You’re also there to enrich the city’s atmosphere.’

And did you succeed? 
‘I think so. And especially by cooperating with others again. With the companies in Brainport Eindhoven, for example. The largest multinationals in the field of technology are located there and they’re always looking for the best people. Then having good facilities that make the environment attractive is essential, including culture. That's partly why it was such an interesting work environment for me. But after almost twelve years it was done. Time for a new step.’

Room for something else?
‘True. And that’s where Werk en Bewonder comes into the story. While doing odd jobs on a new old house, I was toying with the thought of starting as a self-employed person. And then I got a call from the Stedelijk Museum Breda, whether I was interested in an interim assignment as Business Director. As if it was meant to be! With Werk en Bewonder I focus on consultancy and interim management in the cultural sector. In addition, I’m a board member of both BredaPhoto and BredaBarst. I worked all over the Netherlands for years and was eager to do something for my own city as well.’

And that’s what you do now, something for your own city, at the Stedelijk in Breda!
‘Yes, that feels good, although I now live in Tilburg (shhh). In June 2022, I started as an interim business director at Stedelijk Museum Breda, and later I applied for the permanent position. When I started, the team was busy developing new exhibitions and renovating this young city museum. An intensive, but wonderful period to get into. As a city museum, we open up historical heritage in relation to the present and the future. Above all, we also show contemporary art that has a link to the city. We offer renowned Breda artists a stage, but also students or recent graduates of St. Joost, for example.’

A very different challenge?
‘Surely, but I can put my previous experiences to good use. A museum isn’t similar to a building. It has a function in the city. Here again, we seek connections with individuals, businesses, community organisations and education. This makes us highly visible in the city. We work together with Stadsgalerij, a stage for young talents where different generations of artists can learn from each other. And also with Stadsarchief (city archives) and BredaPhoto. By the way, the latter is also a good example of how you can continue to develop by seeking cooperation.’

Good Work! And Admire is Ramses?
‘My musical hero, but that was already obvious. I often realise how special it is to feel happy in the work you do, and also how I have found my role in it over the years. Other than that, of course, my work is about admiring what others create, whether it's art or music or something completely different. I always find it very beautiful to see how others can enjoy and admire!’

Interview by Maaike Dukker 't Hart